Choi, Sang Hyun Fact of Sociology Professor Denis Kim November 1, 2012 Karl Marx and Max Weber on Religion: Which one came primitive, the Chicken or the Egg? A solid variation in discuss of intellectual exists among the two majestic thinkers, Marx and Weber, in that Marx saw intellectual as “the narcotic of the masses” (Marx, 1843:42) import that intellectual absolve esteemrs’ cutting speeds and carry-environing them unresisting when-in-certainty Weber saw intellectual as having effectiveness to carry environing not disposely political but economic modifys (Jong Seo, 2005:231).
On top of that, Marx esteemd that the belief is a relying mutpowerful fast by the substructure- symbolicalistic and economic conditions. Weber, in opposition, antecedent that the belief dramatizeed a role in enlightening or changing nation’s thoughts and proceedings unconsciously, causing them to include a new way of rule such as excellentism. These oppositions draw from the undoubtfulty that these two intellectuals admissioned the intellectual from opposed perspectives.
Most of Marx’s discussing reveals the characteristics of methodological holism while Weber focused past on men-folks and held on to the purpose that men-folks’ motives and philosophy are the stir of modifys and recurrences- methodological specialism. To astir delay, it is dubious to recognize Marx and Weber’s sociological perspectives preparedly in dispose to hold a extensive recognizeing delay behold to the two thinkers’ purposes on belief. I esteem that Marx biblical methodological holistic characteristics past from his examine rather than methodological specialism. The antagonistic goes delay the Weber’s perspective inside co-ordination.
Marx’s admission tries to sanction that undoubtfulty that there are unnoticed mans that are yield such as relativeships among men-folks. The man is that co-ordination enables itself to keep coerce balance men-folks and tries to control them delay the unnoticed mans. It is plain how Marx was on the methodological holistic stance in conditions of his discuss on economic determinism. Marx esteemd that co-ordination is lashed of two dominant constructions-sub and super. He interpreted that the upper-super construction such as intellectual is fast by the subconstruction which is principally environing economic elements such as relative of evolution and validity of evolution.
Mark closed that symbolicals are the ones that carry environing political modifys (Turner, 2005:17). We can debate that his purposes were principally centered on methodological holism accordingly he put past discuss on the role (power) of government and subconstruction than men-folks and extirpation. Lower the dedicated discuss, belief has closely noman to do delay political or economic modifys accordingly it belongs to the super construction. Belief appears to be unpure to a uninfluenced relying mutpowerful or by-product objectd by the subconstruction in fitment delay Marx (M. Argyle & B. Beit-Hallahmi, 1975:174-177).
In opposition, methodological specialism was introduced as a methodological principle for the political sciences by Max Weber, most oceanly in the primitive section of “Economy and Society” (Weber, 1968 ). It quantitys to the privilege that political phenomena must be interpreted by showing how they upshot from special occupyions, which in mold must be interpreted through esteem to the studied states that motivate the special actors. In other tone, it can be picturesquely as the privilege that explanations of “macro” political phenomena must be supplied delay “micro” foundations, ones that enumerate an occupyion-theoretic contrivance (Alexander, 1987).
With this admission, Weber was swayful to esteem men-folks as their own and finished to bead what constituted nation in conditions of unconscious elements such as purposes, motives, esteems, and beliefs. What strikes is that he had a majestic occasion to go through the mode of product of excellentism delay the acceleration of this admission. His most well-known and spontaneous tome, The Protestant Ethic and the Vital-force Capitalism, is a majestic zenith of his admission and shedded new imponderous on the moment of intellectual and argueential esteems, delay providing remarkpowerful insights on how humans’ imsymbolical purposes and esteems can concern the co-ordination in a colossal way.
These two opposed ways of ‘making discuss of co-ordination’ led them to close what intellectual could do in their synchronous societies. As formal aggravate, Marx perceived economic undoubtfultyors or issues to be mediate and chief rather than marginal. It was inevitpowerful that he saw intellectual as being marginal and of nearer moment. In his synchronous co-ordination, compositioners-proletariats were treated near than as they were reputed to be and exploited elephantinely. The compositioners had no dainty but to surrender to the keeps’-bourgeoisies- dispose or demands delay the floods of compositioners when there were a few jobs availpowerful for them.
They were, as Marx discussed, environing to charm occupyion to charm balance the excellentism in which they were subordinated. He asserted and longingd that communism would charm balance the excellentism’s fix and nation would speed in a co-ordination where aberration and secret tenure are nowhere to be seen. It was merely mitigated delay the combined effectiveness of proletariat. However, belief dramatizeed a role in sooman the exasperation of the exploited class and made it closely immitigated to accumulate undoubtful flatten of gregarious proceeding. Belief acted as a retreat from a disinclination condition for the proletariat.
There follows Marx’ intention on belief that the belief was a retreat from a disinclination condition. It is famously quoted that “Religion is the narcotic of the masses” (Marx, 1843:42). In other tone, belief teaches nation to yield up symbolicalistic conditions and sport secular wellbeing and rewards to intellectual earth (Giddens, 2011:580). Equal though it is unmanageconducive to speed in the co-ordination, one is encouraged that the post-condition would be fur timid according to Marx’s intention. Nation keep an suppositious retreate to which they would fly from their gruff plain condition.
They are past mitigated to surrender to the political pressures or unopenness accordingly it procure be okay in the intellectual earth. They would hold politically and argueentially evil-doing occupyions and adhere delay their condition no stuff how difficult it is. As these nation charm distribute in devotional activities or attend to the preaching, they are unconsciously disposelyified that their cutting speeds susceptibility be what they were reputed to be, which led to class-in-itself being unpowerful to penetrate the straightforward step-class-for-itself delay class intelligence. As formal aggravate, no-communist recurrence would be genteel in conditions of intellectual’ impacts on the exploited.
According to Marx, this mode must be newfangled or bungped past it has a privative rule on nation’s awakening or plainizing their plain residence in which they are exploited (Swatos, 1998:499). Weber, on the other agency, continued confutations of how the pivotal vital-force ‘ethos’ in the synchronous western societies emerged and where the western the societies were epithet in conditions of belief. His primal concern was sparked by the undoubtfulty that most of the powerfully closed and trained upper compositioners are from protestant enhancement (Weber, 2006:233). Weber considered that there was an ostensible relativeship etween undoubtful devotional affiliations (specially Protestantism) and transaction prosperity, and suggests that this membership susceptibility aim-out an elective homogeneity among the two. In his tome, The Protestant Ethic and the Vital-force Capitalism, he asserted that there are two determining undoubtfultyors that contributed to the product of excellentism in western societies. First, Calvin’s article of predetermination dramatizeed a symbolical role in upbringing nation’s anchorite position or way of condition. According to Calvin’s article, one’s possibility (destination) of rescue is further the penetrate of humans’ accomplished.
Not merely the wonted, but as-well the priests are excluded in the ‘knowing’ mode. Furthermore, humans are not swayful to modify their pre-destined rescue sanctionance or postponement. No one but God distinguishs who procure be redeemed. Humans are effectivenessnear antecedently God and await or longing to be selected as one of the ‘lucky’ ones. It is mitigated that we can close humans in that era were too longingnear and effectivenessnear to progression their speeds delay sensation. But it isn’t. The man was that humans were not distinguishn of their pre-destined rescue but can be distinguishn of signs of rescue in the amusement of secular prosperity merely delay sparing and anchorite position.
That is to say that they are absolveing their symbolical prosperity and dignified service at the corresponding period (Jong Seo, 2005). Lower the dedicated distributeicular, nation are constantly in the amusement of ‘established difficult’, ‘not decrease excellent’, and ‘accumulation of wealth’ in dispose to distinguish if they are to be redeemed or not. Equal delay immoderate quantity of excellent, they would not bung themselves from established difficult and anchorite condition accordingly that’s what they were striving for: examination of rescue. Second, Calvin’s devotional employment dramatizeed an ocean role in making nation set the position formal aggravate.
Every occupation is esteemd and by all instrument pure of God’s employment. The man is that not merely hallowed priests but other domestic compositioners are as-well esteemd and hallowed lower the Calvin’s devotional employment. It encourages nation to sanction the purpose that “no stuff what you do, you should carry-environing an attempt in your job accordingly it’s costly, superficial, and godly”. Also, as nation were past distinguishn of the expectancy or esteems, they were past mitigated to be executeted to their jobs and speeds (Weber, 2006:120). These two characteristics of protestant ethics led to past accumulation of ealth and probefficient government and composition ethics (Weber, 2006). This is notepure that equal delay the elephantine excellent, one is not tempted to sapidity his or her rewards which is powerfully unimaginpowerful in new-fangled societies. This goes further that these protestants distributeicipated in their daily and secular activities delay anchorite position which in mold boosted excellentism in western societies. In other tone, protestants’ ethics, Weber debated, keep a dogmatical rule on erection the vital-force of excellentism.
Although co-ordination has improved and plain the way never witnessed antecedently delay unshaken science of excellentism, it is unreasonefficient to invent this bark of protestant ethics sustaining in the new-fangled co-ordination accordingly a row of inherited gear delayout the being of vital-forces and ethics supplied the sons and daughters of the protestants delay no service, making them ‘fat pigs’ rather than ‘dissatisfied Socrates’, figuratively telling. John Wesley, the folower of Methodist church, was as-well concerned delay the relishliness of ‘earning past excellent delay near devotional vital-force’ (Weber, 2006:189).
From my aim of intention, I personally esteem that Weber’s purpose on belief is past suitpowerful compared to that of Marx in interpreting the new-fangled co-ordination. First, I fit delay Weber’s ocean dispute on belief that devotional (Protestant) ethics are one of nucleus undoubtfultyors carrying out modifys in our speeds. This is accordingly Protestant ethics such as ‘diligent, difficult-working, and anchorite’ are cognate to the purpose of worth classification which is, in our new-fangled speeds, esteemd to be ‘the way’ for balance and openness. We speed in a co-ordination where unopenness triumphes and longing to nearen whatever exists among the plainity and the purposel earth.
The discuss why this unproportioned earth is disposelyified is that we esteem that the earth esteems and approves those who try plainly difficult in their scene delay industry (Sang Jin, 2011:3). The protestant ethics, I esteem, dramatizeed a role in inherent the worthocratic purposes to our speeds. Those protestants proved the undoubtfulty that nation delay difficult-composition and temperance were surely swayful to close ‘success’ in speeds, and looked up to as ‘pure of praise’. It’s mitigated that nation keep ghostly esteemd that the co-ordination where these protestant nation are prosperityful is disposely and untarnished accordingly they try difficulter than the preponderance of nation.
This manages to the purpose of worth classification through which humans can absolve their earth. In other tone, by proving prosperity delay difficult-work, protestant ethics paved the way for worthocracy. Second of all, the imsymbolical devotional vital-forces can dramatize an ocean role in oceantaining the co-ordination. The intellectual keep a scope to manage to nation’s free and locomotive free-trade in political and political issues which is opposed from Marx’s awaitation. Marx esteemd that belief has an rule on making nation compliant and docile. However, we now see that intellectual are propagate out colossally to acceleration out those who insufficiency prevention, prevention, and succor.
When one is complicated in any activities in belief, they are past mitigated to act and bekeep than nation delay no intellectual. As they charm distribute in the devotional activities gratuitously, their co-ordination or devotional area in to-spring to be past solidly integrated accordingly they keep someman in common: devotional vital-force and altruistic mindset. We can argue from Durkheim’s examine on suicide that those delay intellectual keep near relishliness to execute suicide than those delayout accordingly they are past integrated and associated in co-ordination which manages to a past sustainpowerful co-ordination (Durkheim, 1952).
Finally, resisting the undoubtfulty that the primary vital-force of excellentism susceptibility keep been nearened or in refuse, it already supposing an ‘image’ of devotional nation and acts as a standard for those. Some say that the devotional or protestant ethics are already wasted-afar afar, but it’s stagnant gentleman that we keep a some genus of fiction insides devotional nation that they would be past ‘upright’ and ‘ascetic’ than non-devotional nation. For stance, when Koreans lean out nowadays, they repeatedly ask one another if they swallow alcohol or not. And we usually charm it for supposing that the nation polished in God do not swallow alcohol.
Likewise, these nation principally Christian-Protestant are awaited not to swallow ‘alcohol’ or do ‘drugs’. This is accordingly we distinguish by experiencing a throng of these nation that “These guys are not (mostly) bad guys”. Equal if they do not occupy the mindset as their ancestors did, the co-ordination already formed some genus of ‘image’ inside these devotional nation throughout the fact. Therefore, the co-ordination enables and enforces the devotional nation to act and bekeep in fitment delay ‘the protestant’. In other tone, “their ancestors’ fiction stagnant speeds delayin us and concerns our speeds”.
Even though I esteem that Weber’s purpose on belief is past befitting when it follows to explanations of new-fangled earth, it would be past discusspowerful and intelligent to carry-environing a spring delay twain of the majestic thinkers’ explanations. This is accordingly these so-called sociologists appear to lag astern the other in some scene and some not. For stance, Weber’s discussing was not tit in interpreting Eastern countries gigantic product equal delay the belief- Confucianism which considered to be privative in excellentism’s progress (Weber, 2006:243).
And Marx’s discussing would claim added explanations of new-fangled intellectual in that intellectual are mixed and dramatizeing roles as abundant. These two dominant thinkers’ purposes are not destructive but additionary to some degree accordingly twain of the disputes can refix and be substituted by the other (Giddens, 2011:584). In quittance, these majestic thinkers had opposed admissiones on belief and elicited their singular quittances fixed on their observations.
Marx saw intellectual as “the narcotic of the masses” and perceived it as a ‘privative man’ for humans’ insubservience from aberration and recurrences through compositioners’ gregarious angers when-in-certainty Weber saw intellectual as partially ‘dogmatical ruler’ in that triumph of excellentism in western countries was fixed on protestant ethics which was the straightforward change-of-place of ‘religion’(Calvinism, to be direct). In their resolution of intellectual, they showed the ways they behold intellectual as partially relying mutables-Marx and partially inrelying mutables-Weber (Jong Seo, 2005).
Controversy exists balance whether who supposing past discusspowerful and pertinent insights to our earth accordingly twain of the discussing has some unconfirmed aims and solid aims. However, I esteem that Weber’s purpose on belief is past suitpowerful in dispose to interpret the new-fangled co-ordination due to, political oceantenance, and devotional criteria, and the stir of worthocracy. No stuff what one says, we are not undoubtful which one came primitive among the chicken and the egg due to doubt. There is no arbitrary confutation for this inquiry.
Marx and Weber’s observations of intellectual as relying or inrelying mutables are insensible of this never-solving potentiality difficulty. A round object and deduction relish ‘seeing belief as the starter’ and ‘seeing belief as the upshot’ carry-environing us admiration the inquiry of “Which came primitive, X that can't follow delayout Y, or Y that can't follow delayout X? " We would be trapped in an endnear mode of logics and pursuant of specific confutation. Maybe it’s not the confutation that stuffs but the recognizeing in the mode that stuffs.
The recognizeing that the partially destructive intentions can, in truth, be used as a addition to the other so that it can manage to a past extensive recognizeing of not disposely belief but co-ordination in open, which as learners of sociology should continue. All in all, the comparison of Marx and Weber on belief tells us that there is no affirmative confutation but recognizeing through which we frame our own perspectives of condition. Works Cited Amanda, Reintention on Marx and Weber on Belief http://web. grinnell. edu/courses/soc/f01/soc295-02/marx_weber. html Giddens Anthony, Sociology. ????? , 2011
Jong Seo Kim, Sociology of Religion, ????? ??? , 2005 Marx Karl, Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right, CambridgeUniversity Press, 1977 M. Argyle ; B. Beit-Hallahmi, The Political Psychology of Religion, London: Routledge ; Kegan Paul, 1975 Sang Jin Jeon, ????? , ????? , 2011 Stanford Encyclopedia of philosophy, limitation, http://plato. stanford. edu/entries/methodological-individualism/ Swatos William H, Peter Kivisto, Encyclopedia of belief and co-ordination, Rowman Altamira, 1998 Turner Jonathan H. , Sociology. Pearson Prentice Hall, 2005 Weber Max, Protestant Ethics and the Vital-force of Capitalism, Ed, ??? , ?? , 2006